This post is a not a so secret analogy for the AI Alignment problem. Via a fictional dialog, Eliezer explores and counters common questions to the Rocket Alignment Problem as approached by the Mathematics of Intentional Rocketry Institute. 

MIRI researchers will tell you they're worried that "right now, nobody can tell you how to point your rocket’s nose such that it goes to the moon, nor indeed any prespecified celestial destination."

So the usual refrain from Zvi and others is that the specter of China beating us to the punch with AGI is not real because limits on compute, etc. I think Zvi has tempered his position on this in light of Meta's promise to release the weights of its 400B+ model. Now there is word that SenseTime just released a model that beats GPT-4 Turbo on various metrics. Of course, maybe Meta chooses not to release its big model, and maybe SenseTime is bluffing--I would point out though that Alibaba's Qwen model seems to do pretty okay in the arena...anyway, my point is that I don't think the "what if China" argument can be dismissed as quickly as some people on here seem to be ready to do.
The cost of goods has the same units as the cost of shipping: $/kg. Referencing between them lets you understand how the economy works, e.g. why construction material sourcing and drink bottling has to be local, but oil tankers exist. * An iPhone costs $4,600/kg, about the same as SpaceX charges to launch it to orbit. [1] * Beef, copper, and off-season strawberries are $11/kg, about the same as a 75kg person taking a three-hour, 250km Uber ride costing $3/km. * Oranges and aluminum are $2-4/kg, about the same as flying them to Antarctica. [2] * Rice and crude oil are ~$0.60/kg, about the same as $0.72 for shipping it 5000km across the US via truck. [3,4] Palm oil, soybean oil, and steel are around this price range, with wheat being cheaper. [3] * Coal and iron ore are $0.10/kg, significantly more than the cost of shipping it around the entire world via smallish (Handysize) bulk carriers. Large bulk carriers are another 4x more efficient [6]. * Water is very cheap, with tap water $0.002/kg in NYC. But shipping via tanker is also very cheap, so you can ship it maybe 1000 km before equaling its cost. It's really impressive that for the price of a winter strawberry, we can ship a strawberry-sized lump of coal around the world 100-400 times. [1] iPhone is $4600/kg, large launches sell for $3500/kg, and rideshares for small satellites $6000/kg. Geostationary orbit is more expensive, so it's okay for them to cost more than an iPhone per kg, but Starlink wants to be cheaper. [2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000711415. Can't find numbers but Antarctica flights cost $1.05/kg in 1996. [3] https://www.bts.gov/content/average-freight-revenue-ton-mile [4] https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities [5] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1232861/tap-water-prices-in-selected-us-cities/ [6] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Total-unit-shipping-costs-for-dry-bulk-carrier-ships-per-tkm-EUR-tkm-in-2019_tbl3_351748799
I think that people who work on AI alignment (including me) have generally not put enough thought into the question of whether a world where we build an aligned AI is better by their values than a world where we build an unaligned AI. I'd be interested in hearing people's answers to this question. Or, if you want more specific questions: * By your values, do you think a misaligned AI creates a world that "rounds to zero", or still has substantial positive value? * A common story for why aligned AI goes well goes something like: "If we (i.e. humanity) align AI, we can and will use it to figure out what we should use it for, and then we will use it in that way." To what extent is aligned AI going well contingent on something like this happening, and how likely do you think it is to happen? Why? * To what extent is your belief that aligned AI would go well contingent on some sort of assumption like: my idealized values are the same as the idealized values of the people or coalition who will control the aligned AI? * Do you care about AI welfare? Does your answer depend on whether the AI is aligned? If we built an aligned AI, how likely is it that we will create a world that treats AI welfare as important consideration? What if we build a misaligned AI? * Do you think that, to a first approximation, most of the possible value of the future happens in worlds that are optimized for something that resembles your current or idealized values? How bad is it to mostly sacrifice each of these? (What if the future world's values are similar to yours, but is only kinda effectual at pursuing them? What if the world is optimized for something that's only slightly correlated with your values?) How likely are these various options under an aligned AI future vs. an unaligned AI future?
Fabien Roger20hΩ6130
0
List sorting does not play well with few-shot mostly doesn't replicate with davinci-002. When using length-10 lists (it crushes length-5 no matter the prompt), I get: * 32-shot, no fancy prompt: ~25% * 0-shot, fancy python prompt: ~60%  * 0-shot, no fancy prompt: ~60% So few-shot hurts, but the fancy prompt does not seem to help. Code here. I'm interested if anyone knows another case where a fancy prompt increases performance more than few-shot prompting, where a fancy prompt is a prompt that does not contain information that a human would use to solve the task. This is because I'm looking for counterexamples to the following conjecture: "fine-tuning on k examples beats fancy prompting, even when fancy prompting beats k-shot prompting" (for a reasonable value of k, e.g. the number of examples it would take a human to understand what is going on).
dirk19h125
2
Sometimes a vague phrasing is not an inaccurate demarkation of a more precise concept, but an accurate demarkation of an imprecise concept

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I don't know if this is a well known argument that has already been responded to. If it is, just delete the post.

An implicit assumption most people make when discussion takeover risk, is that any misaligned agent will stave off enacting takeover plans with less than very high probability of success. If the Agent has an immediate takeover plan with 20% chance of success, but waiting a month would allow it to better its position to the point where the takeover plan it could enact then had a 99% chance of success, it would do so.

This assumption seems to break in multi-polar scenarios where you have many AI labs at similar levels of capabilities. As a toy example. If you have 20 AI labs, each having developed...

Epistemic Status: Musing and speculation, but I think there's a real thing here.

I.

When I was a kid, a friend of mine had a tree fort. If you've never seen such a fort, imagine a series of wooden boards secured to a tree, creating a platform about fifteen feet off the ground where you can sit or stand and walk around the tree. This one had a rope ladder we used to get up and down, a length of knotted rope that was tied to the tree at the top and dangled over the edge so that it reached the ground. 

Once you were up in the fort, you could pull the ladder up behind you. It was much, much harder to get into the fort without the ladder....

3Kaj_Sotala3h
Nice post! I like the ladder metaphor. For events, one saving grace is that many people actively dislike events getting too large and having too many people, and start to long for the smaller cozier version at that point. So instead of the bigger event competing with the smaller one and drawing people away from it, it might actually work the other way around, with the smaller event being that one that "steals" people from the bigger one.
4Ericf9h
Related content: https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=168

In less serious (but not fully unserious) citation of that particular site, it also contains an earlier depiction of literally pulling up ladders (as part of a comic based on treating LOTR as though it were a D&D campaign) that shows off what can sometimes result: a disruptive shock from the ones stuck on the lower side, in this case via a leap in technology level.

The history of science has tons of examples of the same thing being discovered multiple time independently; wikipedia has a whole list of examples here. If your goal in studying the history of science is to extract the predictable/overdetermined component of humanity's trajectory, then it makes sense to focus on such examples.

But if your goal is to achieve high counterfactual impact in your own research, then you should probably draw inspiration from the opposite: "singular" discoveries, i.e. discoveries which nobody else was anywhere close to figuring out. After all, if someone else would have figured it out shortly after anyways, then the discovery probably wasn't very counterfactually impactful.

Alas, nobody seems to have made a list of highly counterfactual scientific discoveries, to complement wikipedia's list of multiple discoveries.

To...

I would not say that the central insight of SLT is about priors. Under weak conditions the prior is almost irrelevant. Indeed, the RLCT is independent of the prior under very weak nonvanishing conditions.

I don't think these conditions are particularly weak at all. Any prior that fulfils it is a prior that would not be normalised right if the parameter-function map were one-to-one. 

It's a kind of prior like to use a lot, but that doesn't make it a sane choice. 

A well-normalised prior for a regular model probably doesn't look very continuous or dif... (read more)

2kave9h
Maybe "counterfactually robust" is an OK phrase?
5mattmacdermott12h
Lucius-Alexander SLT dialogue?
1Johannes C. Mayer12h
A few adjacent thoughts: * Why is a programming language like Haskell that is extremely powerful in the sense that if your program compiles, it is the program that you want with a very high probability because most stupid mistakes are now compile errors? * Why is there basically no widely used homoiconic language, i.e. a language in which you can use the language itself to <reason about the language/manipulate the language>. Here we have some technology that is basically ready to use (Haskell or Clojure), but people decide to mostly not use them. And with people, I mean professional programmers and companions who make software. * Why did nobody invent Rust earlier, by which I mean a system-level programming language that prevents you from making really dumb mistakes that can be machine-checked if you make them? * Why did it take like 40 years to get a latex replacement, even though latex is terrible in very obvious ways? These things have in common that there is a big engineering challenge. It feels like maybe this explains it, together with that people who would benefit from these technologies where in the position that the cost of creating them would have exceeded the benefit that they would expect from them. For Haskell and Clojure we can also consider this point. Certainly, these two technologies have their flaws and could be improved. But then again we would have a massive engineering challenge.

N.B. This is a chapter in a planned book about epistemology. Chapters are not necessarily released in order. If you read this, the most helpful comments would be on things you found confusing, things you felt were missing, threads that were hard to follow or seemed irrelevant, and otherwise mid to high level feedback about the content. When I publish I'll have an editor help me clean up the text further.

In the previous three chapters we broke apart our notions of truth and knowledge by uncovering the fundamental uncertainty contained within them. We then built back up a new understanding of how we're able to know the truth that accounts for our limited access to certainty. And while it's nice to have this better understanding, you might...

I know that you said comments should focus on things that were confusing, so I'll admit to being quite confused. 

  • Early in the article you said that it's not possible to agree on definitions of man and woman because of competing ideological needs -- directly after creating a functional evo-psych justification for a set of answers that you claim is accepted by nearly every people group to have ever existed. I find this confusing. Perhaps it is better to use a different example, because the one you used seemed so convincing that it overshadowed your poin
... (read more)
2Gordon Seidoh Worley15h
Author's note: This chapter took a really long time to write. Unlike previous chapters in the book, this one covers a lot more stuff in less detail, but I still needed to get the details right, so it took a long time to both figure out what I really wanted to say and to make sure I wasn't saying things that I wouldn't upon reflection regret having said because they were based on facts that I don't believe or I had simply gotten wrong. It's likely still not the best version of this chapter it could be, but at this point I think I've made all the key points I wanted to make here, so I'm publishing the draft now and expect this one to need a lot of love from an editor later on.
4ryan_greenblatt17h
* My current guess is that max good and max bad seem relatively balanced. (Perhaps max bad is 5x more bad/flop than max good in expectation.) * There are two different (substantial) sources of value/disvalue: interactions with other civilizations (mostly acausal, maybe also aliens) and what the AI itself terminally values * On interactions with other civilizations, I'm relatively optimistic that commitment races and threats don't destroy as much value as acausal trade generates on some general view like "actually going through with threats is a waste of resources". I also think it's very likely relatively easy to avoid precommitment issues via very basic precommitment approaches that seem (IMO) very natural. (Specifically, you can just commit to "once I understand what the right/reasonable precommitment process would have been, I'll act as though this was always the precommitment process I followed, regardless of my current epistemic state." I don't think it's obvious that this works, but I think it probably works fine in practice.) * On terminal value, I guess I don't see a strong story for extreme disvalue as opposed to mostly expecting approximately no value with some chance of some value. Part of my view is that just relatively "incidental" disvalue (like the sort you link to Daniel Kokotajlo discussing) is likely way less bad/flop than maximum good/flop.

Thank you for detailing your thoughts. Some differences for me:

  1. I'm also worried about unaligned AIs as a competitor to aligned AIs/civilizations in the acausal economy/society. For example, suppose there are vulnerable AIs "out there" that can be manipulated/taken over via acausal means, unaligned AI could compete with us (and with others with better values from our perspective) in the race to manipulate them.
  2. I'm perhaps less optimistic than you about commitment races.
  3. I have some credence on max good and max bad being not close to balanced, that additi
... (read more)
1Quinn18h
sure -- i agree that's why i said "something adjacent to" because it had enough overlap in properties. I think my comment completely stands with a different word choice, I'm just not sure what word choice would do a better job.

I offer, no consensus, but my own opinions: 

Will AI get takeover capability? When?

0-5 years.

Single ASI or many AGIs?

There will be a first ASI that "rules the world" because its algorithm or architecture is so superior. If there are further ASIs, that will be because the first ASI wants there to be. 

Will we solve technical alignment?

Contingent. 

Value alignment, intent alignment, or CEV?

For an ASI you need the equivalent of CEV: values complete enough to govern an entire transhuman civilization. 

Defense>offense or offense>defense?

Of... (read more)

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...or continue with

[Setting: a suburban house. The interior of the house takes up most of the stage; on the audience's right, we see a wall in cross-section, and a front porch. Simplicia enters stage left and rings the doorbell.]

Doomimir: [opening the door] Well? What do you want?

Simplicia: I can't stop thinking about our last conversation. It was kind of all over the place. If you're willing, I'd like to continue, but focusing in narrower detail on a couple points I'm still confused about.

Doomimir: And why should I bother tutoring an Earthling in alignment theory? If you didn't get it from the empty string, and you didn't get it from our last discussion, why should I have any hope of you learning this time? And even if you did, what...

Doomimir: No, it wouldn't! Are you retarded?

Simplicia: [apologetically] Well, actually ...

Doomimir: [embarrassed] I'm sorry, Simplicia Optimistovna; I shouldn't have snapped at you like that.

[diplomatically] But I think you've grievously misunderstood what the KL penalty in the RLHF objective is doing. Recall that the Kullback–Leibler divergence represents how surprised you'd be by data from distribution , that you expected to be from distribution .

It's asymmetric: it blows up when the data is very unlikely according to , which amounts to seei... (read more)

It seems to me worth trying to slow down AI development to steer successfully around the shoals of extinction and out to utopia.

But I was thinking lately: even if I didn’t think there was any chance of extinction risk, it might still be worth prioritizing a lot of care over moving at maximal speed. Because there are many different possible AI futures, and I think there’s a good chance that the initial direction affects the long term path, and different long term paths go to different places. The systems we build now will shape the next systems, and so forth. If the first human-level-ish AI is brain emulations, I expect a quite different sequence of events to if it is GPT-ish.

People genuinely pushing for AI speed over care (rather than just feeling impotent) apparently think there is negligible risk of bad outcomes, but also they are asking to take the first future to which there is a path. Yet possible futures are a large space, and arguably we are in a rare plateau where we could climb very different hills, and get to much better futures.

aysja3h75

I don't know what Katja thinks, but for me at least: I think AI might pose much more lock-in than other technologies. I.e., I expect that we'll have much less of a chance (and perhaps much less time) to redirect course, adapt, learn from trial and error, etc. than we typically do with a new technology. Given this, I think going slower and aiming to get it right on the first try is much more important than it normally is.  

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